Outrage over "She Lies" and other libel claims

Age of Idiots has a little (little in thought count, not so little in word count) post up by a lady fish.

My favourite is the part where she quotes an article where certain DR allegedly stated "She Lies." (speaking about Barbara Fisher.  Fisher calls this alleged statement "unsubstantiated, unchallenged slur". 

While I agree that being called a liar is never a sunshine feeling moment, it is hardly 'unsubstantiated'.  And Unchallenged?  I suppose that for the sake of this 'balance' that the AgeOfWooers snivels about would demand that the writer that spoke with Dr. Offit would then need to invite Fisher to the discussion.  However, I would not agree that integrity calls for 'balance' in cases like this-where a professional scientifically sound pov needs to be balanced by anecdote fear mongering dishonest graphcropping patooey.

I had not realized the doctor and reporter were being sued by Fisher, but one can hardly fault the Judge for his stance that this needed to not be in court.

Now, we all know name calling is not nice, but there comes a time when calling a spade a spade is the right thing to do.

Interesting, though, that so many lawsuits seem to be happening against persons speaking up against the bullies at Age of Antivaccs.  Brian Deer, Paul Offit, Quackwatch  come to mind without availling of googleseekdom.  Add all the smear campaigns-writing a certain bloggers workplace for example.

Seems like a great deal of these persons so very active in the antivaccine community are struggling to prove their validity.  And heck! If science wont back them up perhaps the courts will!

But alas, seems like even the courts are not willing to give leeway to snake oil salesmen, fear mongers and wooful authors.

What is next?
Perhaps, mixed in with the mudslinging, lawsuit filing, letter writing, internet bullying we can add some nanana's and foot stomping?

Vaccine Refusal at AoA and effed up comments

Some of the commentators over at Age of Asinine are cracking me up. What follows is my opinion and mouthy way of sharing it. 

The post (about the watchdog article) is discussing how less persons with their shots will equal more persons with the vaccine preventable diseases.
(Gasp, such simple logic has them foaming at the mouth over there!)


Bob Moffit goes on a rant about how he wants a funded study of vaccinated versus unvaccinated oh and by the way he wants a statistic about children's health improvement. 
Newsflash Bob, before vaccines most families lost AT LEAST ONE CHILD to diseases we can now prevent. And I agree with jen, who points out that we just might have that study if the vaccination rates continue to fall in California.

then patrons99 goes on a rant about the lack of scientific evidence in vaccines and herd immunity. (The irony here is killing me) Later he/she follows up with "why dont we use a naturpath?  HAHAHA, because,um... doesnt work?

Then of course you get this commenter going on a discouraged tirade.  Why?  Because the article does not address every little paranoid concern she has.  She figures every article about vaccination should be written by Kim Stagliano I guess...

"What about the fact that an immunized person can still carry and spread pertussis"? Asks another. My answer? "We will get you better Science Classes next time, little grasshopper." Heck even wiki knows that vaccinated persons do not just carry around the disease and spread it.

Mary adds her two cents worth demanding citations for all information in the article. (Here is a hint, Mary.  This is a news article not a study.  But let me answer your questions for ya.  1. Doctors trained in diagnosing disease diagnosed these children with whooping cough.  According to Age of Idiots all doctors have financial ties to the CDC-except for their pets.  2. Various labs tested the samples collected.  According to Age of Ridiculous all labs and lab techs are paid by the CDC and vaccine manufacturors, except for their pets. 3. Duh, if they had been immunized successfully they would not have caught it.  As a 'student of statistics' you should be telling us the answer and providing the formula and information that you use to determine the answer. So, let's say for every 100 people vaccinated 85% are now protected from that disease. If 100 people in one location end up with the disease, the odds are very high that NONE of those persons were immunized (or were immunized AFTER they came incontact iwth the disease.) It is possible that one of those hundred were immunized unsuccessfully. 4. They do not cite the studies because they did not write for a scientific journal.  Besides, Mary, you guys only want studies by Wakefield. Anyone else does a study you AoA'ers all scream foul. 5. Mary, bad news.  You fund the writer.  You buy the paper, or patronize businesses that advertise in that paper.  Thsoe funds are used to pay the reporters.

Tracey has another rant but this gem- "bullying the "educated parent" into compliance!" is my favorite.  I love the quotes around educated parent.  EXACTLY Tracey.  Parents like yourself who have researched on whaleto and AoA etc THINK you are educated.  What you are though is mistaken.  Vaccines do not cause autism.  Vaccines do prevent disease and the spread of said disease.  Herd immunity used to work until you educated yourself. :)

Just because I think it fun, I will finish with Berndetta.  Hunny, have you thought about this? Don't you think that if there were aborted fetuses in the vaccine that it would be difficult to inject it? I'm not funny??? But in all seriousness, there is no gawddammed fetus in teh vaccine.  ohtay??

See? Even AoA knows they are full of it

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/08/child-with-autism-and-mom-with-multiple-sclerosis.html

So, I am really confused.  How can posters and commenters over at age of anger write about how autism is a vaccine injury then deman studies looking at the connection between a parent having MS and a child having Autism?

This is... so contradictory.  Autism is not a vaccine injury.  If it was (it aint), there would be no way that having MS would up your chances of having an autistic child (no clue if one has anything to do with the other).

Sheesh...

Site for lives lost to autism

So the BuZz at AoA is that there is a website dedicated to stories of persons whose lives were lost to autism.
According to some of the comments those who are (not my phrasing) neurodiversity groupies are hating this website and that us (my phrasing) anti-antivaccinators are blogging like mad bitching about it.

Personally, I think a memorial website might be helpful to those who are struggling to come to terms with the loss of a loved one.  (This site though, sounds like it is more of another way to demonize autism rather than be a place of healing)  I do have issues with the phrasing (lives lost to autism? Last I checked you can not die from autism...) but hey.. I have not lost a child-never mind one on the spectrum. 

I have no intentions of checking the website out myself.  It takes up all my courage and gumption just to pop in at Age of Insanity to see what they are up to. (haha)

Seriously, though, reading those comments has me wondering about so many things. I wonder why anyone would want to wallow in the tragic stories.  I wonder why the Age of Antivaccines care if other bloggers like the new website and, well, I wonder why there are so many scarey people online.

I wonder why people insist on talking crap about their children being less, about the lable being responsible for all their woes from weariness to death and about how miserable their lives are.

I am ever grateful to have found the online community where children matter more than rage...

So hugs and prayers for all those who are struggling with grief, Hugs and laughter to any that will accept that laughter is a wonderful thing.

Outbreaks of Preventable disease

Several alarming outbreaks have been noted:

Tajikistan polio outbreak raises risk to other regions

Whooping Cough Epidemic in California

Measles outbreak in Africa

Meningitis Outbreak in Colorado

David Gorsky VS Age of Autism

Go Go Gorsky!  Kick some wackaloon butt!

A nasty, reality dysfunctional group of Anti Vaccine Pro Junk science persons -whom I wont name (cough, mumbleageofautsimcoughcough)- have decided that not only are they going to post misleading information, outright lies aimed at discrediting anyone who has legitimate training in medicine and/or science and encourage parents to not vaccinate their children, but they are also now going to use bullying techniques against any persons foolish enough to voice their opinions against them.
Yes, Age of Lunatics has decided that a full attack on Dr. David Gorski (you might know him as ORAC) and an attempt to ruin his career are the only options available to them in rebuttal of the posts made at his blog.

It is there usually gambit of screeching 'pharma shill' in impotent fury with the added twist of making these ranting claims against Dr. David Gorsky on a professional level.

I offered my letter of support

To The Board of Govenors of Wayne State University:

It is my understanding that some absurd claims have been made against Dr David Gorski by a certain group of anti-vaccination and pro-conspiracy persons. These accusations appear to have sprung from posts on the Generation Rescue and Age of Autism websites.

I have never met Dr. David Gorski, nor am I in a related field.  I am the mother to a child who is diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder. 

As a parent it is very easy to find websites such as Age of Autism that provide misleading and potentially harmful information concerning autism and 'cures'.  Dr. David Gorski has demonstrated his valour in attempting to combat this misinformation and junk science on his blog http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/ . 

I believe that this attempt by AoA and GR to discredit Dr. Gorski and cause him professional grief is a case of 'sour grapes'.  These organizations, whom clearly demonstrate on their webpages that they are unwilling to follow scientific finding, have been unable to successfully refute the logical (and yes opinionated) posts that Dr. Gorski has made concerning their claims and beliefs.  Rather than deal with the content of his posts and attempt a rebuttal they are instead attacking Dr. Gorski's character.

As a parent who is active in both my physcial community and the online community as an advocate for my child and autism, I greatly appreciate and  commend Dr. Gorski for the time and effort he has donated to the cause of critical thinking and science.  Without persons such as 'Orac' to rebut these extremists, misinformation spreads unchecked, capable of causing actual harm (as seen in the recent 'vaccines and autism' fiasco).

I sincerely hope that Dr. Gorski suffers not one iota of distress over this latest nonsense orchestrated by these junk science groups.

Sincerely,

Olmsted on Autism, What a Joke

Dan, Age of Autism's so called 'editor' and 'autism expert' starts of his post with this bit of drivel:

Have the American people finally had it with “experts” telling them that things will be just fine? That oil wells won’t turn into gushers in the Gulf, that cars won’t suddenly become speeding bullets, that a deregulated Wall Street will never rob us blind -- and that autism is a mysterious genetic disorder we’ll get to the bottom of some day in the comfortably far-off future?

Dan, please do answer these questions for me:

What experts are telling the American people that 'things will be just fine'? And what 'things' do you refer to exactly?

I fully get the play on the BP offshore oil fiasco, but I am lost at the 'cars won't suddenly become speeding bullets' reference.

I found that a bullet can travel at 682 mph (understand that there are many factors that will change this number). Can you give an example of a car that 'suddenly' travels at this speed? The closest I could find is the Bugatti Veyron which can hit 252 mph and the Ultimate Aero that can travel at 257.14 mph. Neither of these will suddenly, without any urging from its driver, lunge into full speed.

The 'deregulated Wall Street will never rob us blind' is quite hilarious. (Wall Street is a location. Locations are not sentient. You also imply that everyone has investments, that the brokers have control and an agenda.. so many things wrong with this conspiracy). No need for questions on this one.

Who has been telling you, though, that autism is 'a mysterious genetic disorder we'll get to the bottom of some day in the comfortably far-off future?' (sic) I have seen several professionals, from the team that assessed my youngster to the professionals that provide services to him. None have ever said or implied this. Yes, Dan, there is much about Autism that we do not know. We DO know that autism is a developmental disability. That it is a neurobiological disorder that affects about 1 out of 200 individuals. Experts don't know what causes Autism, though it is believed to be a combination of genetics and environmental triggers. Yes some genes have been identified. You are misleading your minions followers by implying that the experts and/or researchers are saying that autism is purely genetic. (Liar liar, pants on fire!)

Let’s hope they’ve had it, because it’s never going to be more obvious that we’ve all been slimed, quite literally, by the unholy alliance between out-of-control corporate power and out-to-lunch government legislators and regulators. As to the overall mood of the public, Robert Reich put it well in his blog post:

“Whether it's Wall Street or health insurers or oil companies, we are approaching a turning point. The top executives of powerful corporations are pursuing profits in ways that menace the nation. We have not seen the likes not since the late nineteenth century when the ‘robber barons’ of finance, oil, and the giant trusts ran roughshod over America. Now, as then, they are using their wealth and influence to buy off legislators and intimidate the regions that depend on them for jobs. Now, as then, they are threatening the safety and security of our people.

“This is not to impugn the integrity of all business leaders or to suggest that private enterprise is inherently evil or dangerous. It is merely to state a fact that more and more Americans are beginning to know in their bones.”

Wow. Any facts to back up your or Robert Reich's claims? (yes yes, many have pursued profit at the expense other people). Who bought off which legislators? Who intimidated what regions? Who is in this 'unholy' alliance? (Nice work demonizing it all btw). And who gathered the data to indicate that Robert's quote is representative of the 'overall mood of the public'?

It’s not just business and government, either – it’s the reign of “the experts,” who sit around a table and reassure themselves that, because they’re the best and the brightest, everything is, well, under control as of now at the White House, to adapt Alexander Haig’s memorable phrase. As Chris Matthews put it in reference to Obama's reliance on experts, "This meritocracy has gone too far."

Which experts do you allege are sitting around? Is your White House comment meant to make Obama responsible for a vaccine schedule that was created before he even ran for president? Are you kidding me about meritocracy? You and Chris feel that appointments that are 'made and responsibilities assigned to individuals based upon demonstrated talent and ability (merit)' are a problem? Much better, I suppose if we give and individual who has demonstrated a lack of talent and ability some power, hmm? For the record, which alternative system would you like in there? Plutocracy? Aristocracy? Nepotism? Cronyism? Idiocracy? If Obama is not to rely on the experts, who should he rely on? God? Spirit Guide? Jenny McCarthy?

It’s just that kind of expertise that reassures us the out-of-control U.S. vaccination program is, well, under control, that vaccines and mercury have been disproven as a cause of autism, that’s it’s time to move on. The problem is that neither big government nor big business (nor big media) has any incentive to get to the truth, which leaves only the people caught in the middle – namely, the American public.

Dan, what sort of study will it take to convince you that vaccines are not the cause of autism. What do you need to understand that the vaccine schedule is not a health risk but a health benefit. How do you make the assumption that only the people that are not government, media, 'big business' have incentive to 'get to the truth'?

They’re being told a vaccine we don’t need anyway is contaminated with pig virus – but their babies should still get it; that mercury is still OK in shots for pregnant women and infants; that swine flu really was a pandemic that required governments to pay vaccine manufacturers billions to fend it off; that autism really isn’t an epidemic and vaccines have nothing to do with it.

Yes, the public is being told that we don't need that vaccine.... By Age of Autism and others like you. Why do you continue to stir up fear Dan?

I have to add that the whole idea that the swine flu was not a pandemic is very confusing. How can you and your playmates tell us that the government is in Big Pharma's pocket in one breath, then tell us the government got swindled by big pharma in the next?

How much money per vaccine do you think 'big pharma' made from swine flu vaccine (net profit)? How many vaccines were ordered and recieved by the US government?

How much money does 'Big Pharma' make from each prescription of Viagra and similar products? (net profit)? How many were sold to the American public last year?

Autism is not an epidemic. It is not a disease, it is not contagious. If you are going to state otherwise can you please share your source of information?

Yet Americans – particularly parents who are forced to concentrate their minds on this question – aren’t buying it anymore. A quarter of those parents say vaccines can cause autism; fully half are concerned about vaccine side effects.

I love your phrasing. The way that reads, 1/4 of the parents that 'are forced to concentrate their minds on this questions' are concerned with vaccine side effects. Can you now tell me how many parents in the USA are forced to concentrate their minds..?

All fun with nitpicking aside.. Can you explain why parental concern trumps scientifically gathered information? Vaccines do not cause autism. If 30 kazzillion parents believe they do, those parents would be wrong. I would further venture that MOST people are concerned about the side effects of vaccines, medications, pollutants and a wide variety of things-including scientists! Which might explain why so many studies are being done on these very topics.

They’re right; they should be. They’ve heard about Hannah Poling and the autistic-like symptoms acknowledged in vaccine court – a court that turns around and throws out 5,000 very similar cases because every single one of those families besides Hannah’s is apparently deluded and misled by greedy lawyers. They know Vioxx killed people well after the FDA and Merck should have stopped it from happening. They know Toyota sat on its hands and BP cut corners

.
Dan, can you tell us what your criteria for 'very similar cases' would be? Can you explain, to the best of your understanding, the difference between 'autistic-like symptoms' and autism?

“Drill, baby, drill!” didn’t work out so well, even though Obama said he had been “assured” everything would be fine. “Vaccinate, baby, vaccinate!“ – and shut up about the toxic damage washing up in a generation of children -- is about to meet a similar fate. You can feel it in your bones.

Dan, is Obama responsible for the world wide vaccine programs? Can you define 'toxic' in the context of the sentence above?

Dan's original post is here